Season 3, Episode 3: Stories From International Student Support Staff

05.20.2024

 

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Voice: Experimental Humanities.

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Maha Abdulwahab: Hello and welcome to EH Out Loud, where we investigate how technology mediate what it means to be human. For Season 3, we bring you Bard Beyond Borders, your gateway to the vibrant world of international student experiences at Bard College in New York. I am Maha. I am a computer science student here and a MediaCorps intern at Experimental Humanities.

 

And I’m Maha. I’m a MediaCorps intern at Experimental Humanities. And I’m thrilled to guide you through this season of our podcast. As someone who’s deeply invested in the exploration of diverse perspectives, I’m honored to be hosting this series, driven by genuine curiosity and passion for the voices of international students at Bard College. Today, we’re going to embark on the enlightening journey, delving into the rich narratives that define the international student experience. And by the way, The Experimental Humanities Collaborative Network with the support from Open Society University Network also funded the previous podcast I worked on, which is called Home Away from Home, back at the American University of Central Asia. And I’m grateful to now be continuing this work with the Center for Experimental Humanities at Bard College in New York. So on this episode, we’re going to be having Danna Harman, who is the Associate Dean for Displaced Students here at Bard College, and she’s going to be sharing her experience with displaced students as well as international students at Bard College. And then we will have, uh, on the second part of this episode, we’re going to be having Dr. Jonathan Becker, who is the Executive Vice President and Vice President for Academic Affairs at Bard College and the Director for the Center of Civic Engagement. So let’s start with the podcast and listen to some of the conversation we had regarding the international student experience and their advice for the staff and international students here at Bard College. So now, firstly, we’re going to be hearing the conversation I had with Danna Harman regarding the international student and also displaced students here at Bard College.

 

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Maha Abdulwahab: What were some of your, like, special moments or experiences that shaped your decision to work in this like field? Or maybe special moments here at Bard College with the students that you’ve worked–like, with so far.

 

Danna Harman: What I found was that the–to me now, is really interesting is how do people start their lives– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: –all over again, really– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –in a totally new place. You miss home, even though you fled from that home. I mean, how can you not, you know?

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: And there’s, like, a sadness about what your country has become– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: –a sadness about family members that don’t have the opportunities that you have, a guilt, all kinds of things. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: And it’s just very hard. And I thought that working in that space of newcomers–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: –would be satisfying and interesting. I– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –also at the same time, I’m just like, I don’t know if it’s forever or for now, got a little tired of journalism because– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: –social media and. The news in the world is so depressing, and there’s just so much news, and– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –there’s so much fake news, and I just got weary a little bit. And I also have been doing it for 30 years, so I’ve been 30 years writing stories.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: And you’re so good at it, by the way.

 

Danna Harman: [Laughs]

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Especially right now. 

 

[Laughter].

 

Danna Harman: Oh my god, but I’m a writer, I’m not a talker. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughs].

 

Danna Harman: Um, so I thought, Let me try something different. So I thought, let me hibernate. I think of myself as hibernating over here. And also I got here, and you know how Bard is, like, a lot of things were, like, a little disorganized. I was like, so– 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: –who are my students? Is there a list of my students? What am I supposed to be doing? Where am I supposed to be living? 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: So imagine like, how is it [Laughs] going to be for, like, students? So– 

 

Danna Harman: I know, I know.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: You guys are resilient. By definition, anyone that– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Thank you.

 

Danna Harman: –got themselves out of their country and to college in America with a full scholarship has got to be the top of the top. Resilient and– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Hope so. [Laughs].

 

Danna Harman: –ambitious and pushy and lucky and all of those things.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Okay, so another uh interesting question. How do you envision the future of the Displaced Students Program? Students like at Bard College, how do you see them in the future?

 

Danna Harman: I don’t know.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: It’s a difficult question. 

 

Danna Harman: That’s a really difficult question.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughs].

 

Danna Harman: And it’s also like, as they say, above my pay grade. Like, I– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: –don’t know what they’re going to do with this program. I know that i–it’s not going to be as massive as it was up until now.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: Because, you know, it was done kind of in a chaotic and crazed and generous way because of circumstances. Look, other circumstances might dictate other waves of different displaced or refugee students coming in the future. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: Um, I know that next year there are going to be, I think, two students from Gaza– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –and there are going to be other students, a couple from, um, I think a Jordanian refugee camp, so they would also be– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mmm.

 

Danna Harman: –Palestinian, and perhaps there’s going to be some from Kakuma, which is a refugee camp in Kenya.

 

Danna Harman: So they are– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mmm!

 

Danna Harman: –going to try and create a sort of ongoing presence and program here of refugees and– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –displaced students coming over to study and given full scholarships. But I think that the program is going to be–much smaller. Look, it’s really heartbreaking because so many Afghans and so many people who are advocating for amazing individual Afghans write to me– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: –and to others at the college every day. They’re like, oh, we have this incredible, you’ve got to take the student and we don’t have that program anymore. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: Same thing with Ukrainians. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: So that doesn’t exist. I think that’s something that I didn’t really think about much. And I guess students similarly to me.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: But now I’m realizing as I’m here, there’s a difficulty in pulling together the funding– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –for what ne–what–what Bard wishes it could do. I mean, I wish we had so much more money, and– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –then they would expand the program. But as you know, and I know now, they don’t. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: Anyone can apply through the Common App, anyone. And then there’s– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Oh yeah, that’s true.

 

Danna Harman: –a big consideration for if you’re displaced and circumstantial for getting financial aid.

 

Danna Harman: But as, like, a cohort, so sort of, President Botstein was like, we are going to accept a hundred Afghans– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –and then a hundred Afghans materialized and came here. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: And also the selection process was different than it is now. You didn’t fill out all exactly the same forms and this and this. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: So I think it’s going to shift. There’s something called, separate subject, there’s something called Welcome Corps. It’s a new way of receiving refugees into the– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –United States. It’s a little bit based on the model that they have in Canada– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –whereby communities. Welcome refugees into their community and also help take care of them and help sort of guide them and show them the way. As part of the Welcome Corps–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mmm.

 

Danna Harman: –there’s something called Welcome Quorum. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: It’s new. It’s just rolling out– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Okay.

 

Danna Harman: –this next coming year. And Bard, along with other colleges– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –across America, have joined this Welcome Quorum campus. Not only did we join, I would say that we’re one of the leaders because we’re one of the leaders in experience of–so, um, Bard joined the Welcome Corps on campus. And so for the first couple years, the State Department will– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –say, where those refugees come from. That’s how they hit upon, like, Jordan and Kakuma next year. That’s where the refugees are coming to this program. But the– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Right. 

 

Danna Harman: –following years, Bard will be able to decide itself where, you know, where to focus its attention that particular year. And I guess it will focus its attention on places of the world that need focused attention on them. Not that Afghanistan doesn’t need ongoing focused attention, but what to do that– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Right. 

 

Danna Harman: –you know, Attention spans are short and people switch, avert their eyes to the next crisis. Which sadly there are many of them.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: There is a lot of issues in the world. 

 

Danna Harman: a lot. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: It’s really hard to, like, focus on one place. There’s a lot of other stuff going on in the world other than, like, I don’t know, Afghanistan or Ukraine or Russia or whatever it is, like, we don’t know. Sometimes, so–I understand–

 

Danna Harman: But of course, I mean, one thing– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –that’s a little bit frustrating and superficial about journalism is that people just forget that a conflict is ongoing, just because Ukraine– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –you know, the full scale invasion happened in Ukraine–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: –doesn’t mean that in Afghanistan people weren’t suffering just as much, if not more. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: I agree.

 

Danna Harman: They became more desperate and more, um, freaked out about– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: –not having options. And now, you know, that the horrible situation in Gaza doesn’t mean that in Ukraine and in Afghanistan people still aren’t– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: It’s–

 

Danna Harman: –bleeding and suffering.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah, they’re totally different scenarios. 

 

Danna Harman: Totally, but people move on sort of in their–what they pay attention to. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: So a couple of, like, last questions.

 

Danna Harman: Mm-Hmm.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: What advice would you offer to individuals who aspire to work in, like, similar roles as you, like supporting displaced students or international communities?

 

Danna Harman: One is, I feel like in the last couple years it taught me at my old age– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –that like individuals have kind of a lot of power if they just go for it. I mean that sounds like a Nike commercial, so I didn’t mean it to sound that way, but that– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughs].

 

Danna Harman: –amazed me and my friends how much we somehow managed to get done in evacuating people. I think that a lot of times– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –you think that someone smarter or more, I don’t know, professional than you should be the one doing stuff– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah

 

Danna Harman: –and it turns out there is no one like that, or you’re just as capable. I think passion to do something and working hard goes a super long way, longer–further than I thought it could. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: That individuals can accomplish things. There’s that. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Okay.

 

Danna Harman: And another thing just from my earlier career of being a journalist I would say is that people should to the extent that they can because I know like a lot of people just need to make money in order to have somewhere to live and to support their family– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –or whatever–to whatever extent they can you should make bold decisions that are your own because– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: –you know your family might want certain things for you and a lot of societal pressure and family pressure on you but– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: –in as much as you can you should try and center one–I’d suggest centering oneself and figuring out like–what would I like to get done in this world? Where would I like to be physically? What would I like to be doing and inch your way in that direction as much as you can.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Awesome. 

 

Danna Harman:Is that good advice? 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah, it is.

 

[Laughter].

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Okay, maybe a last message to the listeners. Mostly it’s going to be international students, so what would you give as a last message or last thoughts to our audience who are listening to us, maybe 

 

Danna Harman: Our international students here?

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Anything you have in mind, so.

 

Danna Harman: International students here–I mean this isn’t going so much to the displaced because you guys are all like new Americans in a way, but to the international students that are here– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –visiting get to know Americans get to know like Americans in your classes, in your– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –like dorm room, go visit them on your holidays. Don’t be shy– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughs].

 

Danna Harman: –and don’t be scared because it’s your opportunity to get to– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Right.

 

Danna Harman: –see something. And if it’s like not fun– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –or terrible, it’s–a year from now it’ll be like a really worthwhile experience somehow– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Right.

 

Danna Harman: –for negative and for positive. Just give it a try. Date someone who’s an American.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughs].

 

Danna Harman: I’m serious. Like, just get out of your comfort zone. You can return to your comfort zone later when you go back to your countries or to your community. And that way, it’s the case for Afghans, too. Like, yes, I believe that you will live in your community if you want to. But– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Danna Harman: –now is the time to experiment a little, or as much as you can. I’m a big one for experimenting and trying things once or twice. Yeah, you are good at that.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Getting out of comfort zone is my favorite thing. It’s very risky, but I love doing it. [Laughs].

 

Danna Harman: And you can’t, like– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: –fall too far. And if you fall, eh, so you try–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: –again. It’s not the end of the world until you–yeah.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: A couple of people said, like, this last sentence in, like, my previous other episodes. 

 

Danna Harman: Uh huh.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Like before you fail, try once again. And you said it again. Which is like so, uh, interesting and like, I don’t know, what a coincidence. Everybody’s saying the same thing in my podcast. [Laughs]. 

 

Danna Harman: And there’s another. There’s this guy, Wayne Goretzky, who’s like a hockey player, I think, in, um, in Canada. He’s the most famous Canadian, practically. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: And, uh, I don’t know anything about hockey and not too much about Canada, but anyway, he said you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don’t take.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: A good one. [Laughs].

 

Danna Harman: Yeah, it’s a good one also. It’s– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Danna Harman: –like, just try it. What could possib–you know, just try it. Okay, you failed, but at least you gave it a try. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Okay, great. And now, the second part of the episode will contain Dr. Jonathan’s conversation and his perspective regarding international students and displaced students at Bard College. Welcome, and it’s an honor to have you on the show.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: I’m thrilled to be here, Maha– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughs].

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –and it’s really important to talk about the issues that you’re addressing.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: So you had a wealth of experience working with international students, both at the American University of Central Asia and now at Bard College. How have you seen the landscape of international education evolve over the years and what were some of your unique challenges and oppor–uh like opportunities?

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: So that’s a great question. So first of all, my whole academic career, I was an international student. I’m from the United States, but I studied in Quebec in Montreal. Uh, then I studied in the United Kingdom, at one point I studied in France for a year. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Okay.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker:  So I’m an American who never studied in the United States, whose entire academic career– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughs].

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –I was myself an international student. Also in my professional career, uh, when I was finishing my doctorate, I went and lived and worked and taught in Central and Eastern Europe, uh, and Ukraine. Um, from 1992 to 1997.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Okay.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: So I was shaped by international education. Um, when I was doing my graduate work, which was at Oxford university at St. Anthony’s college, we had an amazing global environment. There were people from more than a hundred countries. Um, and that shaped my view of the world, which is that we can learn with it from each other. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: Um, that I’m a comparative politics person, and I think when we’re trying to understand our own societies. We can often learn by studying other societies, and I think that it’s really enriching to be in a classroom with people who– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker:  –have different experiences and different perspectives that everyone gains from, uh, such experiences.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: So, I know that at Bard College that you were involved in a lot of initiatives, which–I am part of, which is supporting, um, the refugees from Afghanistan and from like other countries as well, especially like from war torn spaces. Can you share some like insights to the experiences of these students and the role of education and their resettlement and integration?

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: Yeah, that’s a great question. So first of all–let me talk about Bard, then I’ll talk about myself. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr: So Bard has had a commitment to people, refugees and displaced people, um, going back to the Second World War, where a number of our faculty, uh, including people like Heinrich Blucher, who was the husband of Hannah Arendt– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –came here, uh, in 1956, we welcomed 300 Hungarian refugees after the Soviet invasion, uh, of Hungary.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

Dr. Jonathan Becker:  Uhh, In the 1990s, we had many people from Eastern Europe. In the 2000s, people from Africa. We had the program in international education. Then we had, uh, the program, [smacks lips] uh, international education, which was expanded to include Syrian refugees– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –um, and displaced people. So we have a long history of this. We didn’t anticipate the volume of what has occurred, um, since then, but our first big foray recently has been with, uh, students from Afghanistan. The fall of Kabul occurred in 2021. And because of our relationship with the American University of Central Asia, um, which has had, you know, hundreds of Afghan students over the years, and because of our role in the Open Society University Network, we felt acutely what was going on.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: I, for example, was a teacher who had Afghan students in my class as the Taliban was sweeping across the country. And because of our experience with AUCA, and because of our partner’s experience with AUCA, American University of–uh Beirut, um, Central European University, we had some sense of what was impending in Afghanistan [phone vibrates]. So we’re believers in education and we thought that we could bring our unique commitments and network to bear to try to preserve the education for young people [phone vibrates] in Afghanistan– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –and the opportunity to afford it itself. We didn’t know what we were doing. I myself was benefited from uh talking to a U. S. journalist umm named George Packer who spent a lot of time in Afghanistan [phone vibrates]– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –who warned me in early 2020. Uh, one, um the summer that he felt things would go badly and quickly in Afghanistan. And we began to think, what can we do for these students who we know and care about? And that began a process. Um, the process for me included reading this book by Thurston Clark, which is called, uh, Audible Exit, which is about the American, uh– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –departure from Vietnam [chair creaks]. And in that book, he discusses how people in the U. S. government helped get Vietnamese out of the country before the takeover, um, by the communist government and what it meant for those who were able to leave and those who didn’t leave– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –um, and the implication that had on their lives. So from us, there’s a commitment started with education. How do we preserve the education for young people? And how can we take a network and demonstrate resilience by supporting students? Um, that process, as you’re well aware, included ensuring people were out of, out of, uh, Afghanistan, had a place to– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –shelter and study, helping, uh, evacuate 177 students from Kabul to Bishkek, navigating with the U.S. government to bring people here. But the real question is, why do we do this? And the question is, we believe in the education of young people, and we believe that our educational process, here in Annandale-on-Hudson, is enriched by the presence of smart, young, talented people from around the globe who want to learn. Um, so it’s consistent with that.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: You know, new tragedies and opportunities have emerged since then. We welcome students um from Myanmar, uh both online and in person. Students from Ukraine, uh students from Russia. We had a program in Russia called Smolny College, which was closed. Um, and Bard was removed, named an enemy of Russia’s constitutional order, and we wanted to step up to provide education. You know, part of it is the president of Bard, Leon Botstein, is himself uh– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –a refugee. Um, and that has shaped our view. So again, what we think is: we want to provide education to young people who we can support. Uh, we have a family of Bard. If you’re a student at AUCA, you’re a student of Bard college.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: Um, and most of all–we, and I, think that the educational process of all of our students is enriched by the presence of these students. This is not charity. This is about education. And– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –education. Our students in Annandale-on-Hudson are much better when they’re exposed to our students who come from Afghanistan. It’s a really difficult transition coming to the United States. I get– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –to see this up close. My wife is British–had a very difficult transition [laughs] to the United States– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –um, and if people–if we’re welcoming people, how do we make it so that their transitions are easier? And so that, from a government perspective, people could become productive citizens. And in the US, unfortunately, I think the view of a lot of immigrants is we will bring people in and hopefully they will fill certain types of service jobs. W–There’s dignity in those jobs, and yet, um, the intelligence, the innovation of the people we need, um, we think that they could enjoy even richer lives and contribute more, um, to society here, as we would say to people.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: So we think it’s better for young people to come in and have a runway, um, through a college education. Um, it can help them adapt to the United States, it’s a difficult process. Many people have experienced traumas, they have family who are dispersed, and we understand that. And we think that we have, we’re not perfect, we have flaws and yet we think it’s a much better environment here than if someone just went through a resettlement agency, so we think we contribute to this. We also want to demonstrate to other institutions, um– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –the benefits of having displaced students on campus, and we’re trying to convey the message. You know, last year, Bard had two Rhodes scholarships, one a Syrian refugee, one an Afghan refugee. These messages are important for other people, uh, other institutions. Um, I was at the UN Global Refugee Forum in Geneva in December, and one of the things I said is, you know, it’s unf–I’m very proud that we’re here at representing Bard. It’s unfortunate that institutions which have, you know, endowments a thousand times [laughs] larger than ours 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: Are not taking the lead on this. And we hope that we’ll convince people to do that.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: So how do you think–the support of international students at Bard College, not like refugees, in general, like international students. What, like, what advice would you give to the current staff and students who are currently at Bard, and who would like to have a bright future and continue to be, um, in this–these kind of like programs that Bard has?

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: Bard–one thing Bard has done since I’ve been here, even before I was here, is Bard actually gave financial aid to international students, which was unusual– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –right? So, since I’ve been here, and that’s a long time, since 1997, um, we’ve had a robust international student community, and we view that community as enhancing the education of–of all of our students. Most of the people who are involved in working with international students feel enriched by that experience. Now, sometimes there’s difficulties, right? 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: Administrators face challenges with students. Students often–many of the displaced students who got here have experienced traumas, uh, many who are here, um, you know, they’re here because their the squeaky wheel in some ways, right? So they– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –have high demands and high expectations. And what we try to do is engage people on their level. We have to have a tolerance for the difficulties and challenges people have had. Um, we can’t just–I–we don’t just assume, oh, we did this, you should love us, right? 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: Um, we want to meet people where they are and say, look. You know, we’re trying to do the best we can with this. Sometimes we make errors. Help us to address them, but understand that at the end of the day, we feel that you’re in a better position for this and we feel that we are in a better position for this. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: So, we do the best we can and rather have an open heart to this than do what most places do, which is not welcome people because it’s too much trouble.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Before, like, we wrap up, do you have any final comments? 

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: Yeah.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Any final thoughts– 

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: I mean I can–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: –that you want to share with our listeners? 

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: Yeah, sure. I mean, looking forward, we are–we began with an Afghan program. Um, this, this round of things, I think what we’re doing is we’re creating the sanctuary fund. We joined Welcome Corps so that we can, on a continuous basis, welcome displaced people to Bard. Maybe not at the volume we are now [laughs]. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: I mean, I was at this Global Refugee Forum and it was amazing, it’s like, you know, the Republic of Ireland– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughs].

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –is representing, you know, welcoming fewer students than Bard College has, right?

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: So, we have maybe at times bitten off more than [laughs] we can chew, but I would do that. I’d rather make a mistake and err on the side of welcoming people than not. So we’re–we’re transforming the sanctuary program to accept people from multiple localities. We’ll have some students from Gaza next year. We’ll have some students from uh Kenya next year.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: Um, and we want to make sure that this remains part of the identity of the institution. Um, so that–that’s where we’re looking. And, uh, we’re also trying to chronicle our successes and mistakes so that other institutions who get involved can learn from that, and so that– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Dr. Jonathan Becker: –future generations of Bard people, uh, can learn from that. Um, so we’re, you know, we–we–a good educator wants to learn, uh, we want to learn, but we believe at the end of the day that, you know, this, this is a special place. Our willingness to make a commitment to people, like, it is really tough to do that and to try to convey to others how valuable, um, this, uh, experience for the academic institution is. And if we can convey that message to others to get them to open their doors, um, then we will have done better than just for the students who are here, but for future generations of students, and that’s where our focus is.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Great, I love that. Um, thank you so much, Dr. Jonathan. I really appreciate your time, and, um, like, the fact that you came and, um, had this episode with me, it’s–it’s a great conversation and enlighting. [Music increases in volume]. This season of EH Out Loud is produced at Bard’s Center for Experimental Humanities by me, Maha Abdul Wahab, and Krista Caballero, the co-director of EH. Fact checking and transcription by Anna Hallet Gutierrez and Neil Bhatia. Sound editing and music by Maha Abdul Wahab and Bert Cohen. Special thanks to our guests and the Experimental Humanities Media Corps. Visit us again at eh.bard.edu to learn about Experimental Humanities and other projects at the Center. Thank you so much.

 

[Music continues].