Season 3, Episode 1: Personal Tales of Displaced Students

05.20.2024

 

[Intro Music] 

Voice: Experimental Humanities.

[Background Music] 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Hello and welcome to EH Out Loud, where we investigate how technology mediates what it means to be human. For season three, we bring you Bard Beyond Borders, your gateway to the vibrant world of international student experiences at Bard College in New York. I am Maha. I am a computer science student here at Bard College and a MediaCorps intern at Experimental Humanities. I joined Bard in August 2023, previous semester, and I’m continuing with my studies in computer science. And I’m thrilled to guide you through this season of our podcast. As someone who’s deeply invested in the exploration of diverse perspectives, I’m honored to be hosting this series, driven by genuine curiosity and passion for the voices of international students at Bard College. Today, and in the episodes to come, we’ll embark on the enlightening journey delving into the rich narratives that define the international student experience. And by the way, the Experimental Humanities Collaborative Network, with the support from the Open Society University Network, or OSUN, funded the previous podcast I worked on with my friend, which is called Home Away From Home, back at the American University of Central Asia. Uh, I’m grateful to now be continuing this work with the Center of Experimental Humanities at Bard College in New York. Today, we have two special guests. They’re very close friends of mine and they’re going to embark on their journeys of coming to Bard College and pursuing economics here. So let’s give a round of applause to two of my guests here today and [laughs] and start with maybe a brief introduction, maybe mention your name, a little bit more about your journey and yeah.

 

Zainab Hashimi: Hi Maha and thank you for having me. This is Zainab Hashimi. I’m an econ student, a junior obviously, and I’m originally from Afghanistan and I’m happy to be here.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Okay.

 

Diana Wardak: Hey, Maha. And hey, everyone. She is a very good friend of mine.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughs].

 

Diana Wardak: This is Diana. I’m also senior. Well, you were junior, right Zainab?

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughs].

 

Diana Wardak: I’m a senior econs student? Yeah. [Everyone Laughs]. Well, just adding a little bit salt and sugar on top of our discussion here. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughs]. [Sniffs].

 

Diana Wardak: Yeah, so thanks for having me.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: No problem at all. Okay, so for today’s podcast, we’re going to be talking basically about the journeys of Afghan students. But since I’m also Afghan, and two of my friends here are from Afghanistan, we’re going to be talking about, like, displaced students, or Afghan students here at Bard College. So let’s start, and let’s start with my first question for both of you. So can you maybe share your journey of coming to Bard, whether it’s, like, from Afghanistan or from somewhere else? And what were some of the factors that influence your decisions of coming to Bard College?

 

Diana Wardak: I can start. I was really interested to study in one of the universities here in the U.S. And back then, when I was in the American University of Afghanistan, that’s what I had in mind, to, like, apply to different colleges here. But then Bard College, which is one of really good universities, they accepted my application, I would say. Not just mine, but so many other Afghans. And after I applied, I was admitted to the college and then I transferred from American University of Afghanistan to Bard College. And when I first arrived here, the environment will obviously, when you just go for the first time to somewhere which is, like, somehow unfamiliar to you, it’s difficult and it’s going to take a while- 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Diana Wardak: –for you to, like, adapt to the environment. But after I would say a few days, The people around me, they were really nice.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Diana Wardak: There’s such a good and uh welcoming community here at Bard College, and it feels like home now, I would say.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Awesome. What about you, Zainab? Can you give us some extra information? [Laughs].

 

Zainab Hashimi: Actually, unlike Diana, I never thought I would end up studying in one of–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Me too. [Laughs].

 

Zainab Hashimi: –the universities [Laughs] in the United States because back in Afghanistan, I was a medical student. I was in my last semester and I was all prepared to take my residency exam and go to do my residency and stuff. And suddenly what happened, we all know. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: At the same time, I was a student at American University of Afghanistan as well. I was studying IT I would say as a freshman. After the Taliban took over, I, with many other students from American University of Afghanistan and Central Asia, we left Afghanistan just because to pursue our education because of the situation that was back in Afghanistan. And we ended up studying two years at American University of Central Asia. And I changed my major to business administration, particularly because I guess I wanted to take a major that were much more aligned with medical. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

Zainab Hashimi: Uh, and then, after two years, I got transferred to Bard College and I’m here now. I’m also setting my pre-med classes and stuff to–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: –apply for medical school after this. And I would say I’m grateful for the opportunity to actually pursue my education because I know many people back in Afghanistan and girls, they don’t have this opportunity. And I think we all should value this opportunity and take good amount of advantage out of this opportunity.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: I totally agree.

 

Diana Wardak: By the way, I did not talk about how I chose economics. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm, go ahead.

 

Diana Wardak: Uh, I was originally studying business administration, and I was concentrating in management. But when I came here at Bard, they did not have, like, business administration in their academic curriculum, so I had to switch to economics, which sounded a little bit difficult at the beginning because you just switch major, which is not a, like, I mean, small thing. But after a while, I really like the classes, the content, and whatever economic has to offer. So I am enjoying it right now and looking forward to become a economist- 

 

Zainab Hashimi: [Laughs].

 

Diana Wardak: –at some point.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Zainab wants to add something.

 

Zainab Hashimi: Actually, I’m also glad that I changed my major to economics, like, no offense to business administration. So when I was at American University of Central Asia, my econs teacher, once she told me that you will be wasted in business. 

 

Zainab Hashimi: And I didn’t take that so much seriously.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughs].

 

Zainab Hashimi: I was like, why? But now I’m like, it was not because business was something not good for a human being to study, but it was just because my intellectual ability was much more aligned with economical theory than business administration. So, yeah.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Interesting. And I just wanted to mention a fun fact about me and Zainab. Before coming to Bard, we were actually admitted in Louisville University in Kentucky, but after, like, getting everything basically from the letter and acceptance, they sent us an email before the start of the semester, two months before the semester starts, mentioning that we don’t have sufficient funding. So, that’s why the last option [Laughs] for us was to come to Bard College, but I mean, like, we didn’t expect this to happen for a lot of the students at AUCA, but I’m very grateful and I believe everyone, like, who came to Bard College, they’re very happy with this opportunity. So yeah, I just wanted to mention that.

 

Diana Wardak: Exactly, like you just pointed to the opportunity that you got and also the generosity that Bard College offers in– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Diana Wardak: –embracing students from–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: So I think this podcast is just, like, a great opportunity for, like, the international students to voice their experiences and what challenges they have faced. And so whenever someone like an Afghan student who is going to be admitted to Bard soon, listen to this podcast and learn from our experience is going to be, I don’t know, a great opportunity for them to, like, learn about Afghan students experiences here at Bard College. So I have, like, a question related to this. So yeah, how do you balance your academic life, especially after coming to the U. S. or after coming to Bard College, with a new culture and, like, with a new environment?

 

Zainab Hashimi: Well, actually, that was, that was, a tricky part– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

Zainab Hashimi: –like, balancing your studies with work and your personal life because there’s time conflict between here and where my family actually live. Actually, when something happens to you, you just accept it–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: -and you just want to find a solution for it, right?

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Zainab Hashimi: When I first left Afghanistan, I had two options. One, to just sit in my room and think about all the things that just happened and all the opportunities that I lost in Afghanistan. The other option was to see to the opportunities that are ahead of me and see the bright side. So I think choosing this second option is a better one. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: When we came here, obviously, we faced lots of challenges adapting to new environment–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughs].

 

Zainab Hashimi: –especially when I was in Central Asia. I didn’t know the language at all. And also kind of balancing your studies with work because you have to work here. You have to be independent. It’s challenging. I would not say that I have mastered this. It’s challenging.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: Sometimes I feel like I’m under pressure of, like–like, studies and work. But this is how we grow, right?

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Zainab Hashimi: The more stress we take, the more we grow, and the more we will be more independent and strong.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Hmm. 

 

Zainab Hashimi: And I guess it’s not a task to just complete. I cannot say that I mastered this and I balanced my life. I’m– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: –still struggling to balance my life. But it’s a way that that we have, we all have to go through and-

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Zainab Hashimi: –this is how life is. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah. Totally agree. What about you Diana?

 

Diana Wardak: Well like Zainab mentioned, sometimes you don’t have any other choice but to, like, stand up and move on with your life. And currently I would say I’m a type of person that, I adapt to the environment quickly. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Diana Wardak: So I am able somehow to, like, manage my academic life and my personal life as well. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Diana Wardak: So everything is going well for me.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah, I mean, like, for me as well, of course, adjusting to Bard and, like, to the US life is very hard, especially now we don’t get any, what do you call it, support, financial support from the university. We kind of have to balance work and study together, so it’s a little bit hard, but this is how life it is for Afghan students right now. And, and I believe the things that we’re going through is just making us more stronger and, like, more independent. And we’re looking forward for the future and for more opportunities, I would say. So yeah.

 

Zainab Hashimi: I would also want to add this is how life works, actually.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Zainab Hashimi: I mean, yeah–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: It’s harder here, but it is like that.

 

Zainab Hashimi: –because in Afghanistan, we didn’t have to work. That’s why we never actually experienced this kind of life working and studying. But when I recall my memories, I had friends who actually were in the same situation that we are now here at Bard. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: They were in Afghanistan, they were working, they were, like, paying for their tuition. Universities, I think this is how life is. But for us, the most difficult part is this not having family support near us, like, they are far away from us. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: That’s actually, I think, the biggest challenge in here.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: I agree. 

 

Diana Wardak: For me, I would say since childhood, I wanted to be, like, active and work and make myself busy. And that’s how I even, I was used to work in Afghanistan. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Diana Wardak: I started working back in there and it’s still, like, an ongoing process. Like you said, at the same time, apart from being student here, you have to work and you have to, like, you know, balance your academic life and personal life and I would say financial life and–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Diana Wardak: –whatever.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: I mean, for me, my parents were not allowing me to work [Laughs] because of the threats. But as you mentioned, there were a lot of uh girls who who were doing both at the same time. And I don’t know when someone talks about Afghanistan, I believe they think we’re in a very isolated place. Everyone is, like, very conservative and strict, but it wasn’t like that. We used to live our life normally.

 

Diana Wardak: And there were–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Diana Wardak: –actually really good work job opportunities for girls. I mean, at the end, before Kabul collapses in the hands of Taliban, there were really good projects that girls were busy working on, like, from different organizations like World Bank or other organizations that they were busy on working on, which was really good for their career development and other, you know-

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Diana Wardak: –career pathways.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Can you guys maybe share any memorable moment or milestones you achieved so far since arriving to Bard? It can be a very small thing, not a huge thing. I don’t know if people, when they talk about achievements, they think it’s like, a huge.

 

Zainab Hashimi: I would share. I actually got my first paid job. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Oh! [Laughs].

 

Zainab Hashimi: Because I was working with my father and my mother with their NGOs with my sister and her, like, NGO and it was, like, family business, you know? 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Zainab Hashimi: I never had to, like, apply for the job and get the job.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: I was like, okay, you work in there. I’m your sister. I’m your sibling. Or maybe you’re related to me. Hire me.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughs].

 

Zainab Hashimi: You know? It was usually a bit family business type. The–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Connections.

 

Zainab Hashimi: Yeah. Because it was my family business. So I obviously had to end up there. Never had the experience of, like, going and interviewing or maybe submitting my application for a job. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Zainab Hashimi: So that’s actually the biggest achievement for me that I got a job. Without any connection, through handshake. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: I’m so proud of you. [Laughs].

 

Zainab Hashimi: Thank you. Without any connection, through handshake. [Laughter]. And yeah. [Laughter]. That was a biggest moment for me.

 

Diana Wardak: For me. I think one of the achievements that I can count on is that I am an independent woman and that’s one of the achievements I count on. You know, life has its ups and downs here but at some point life here makes you to be someone active and independent.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah and there’s something else you didn’t mention which is your small business that you just created. 

 

Diana Wardak: Oh, yeah–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Something–

 

Diana Wardak: –by the way, I’m also an entrepreneur.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughs].

 

Diana Wardak: So working on some um projects which are related to fashion and designing as well

 

Maha Abdulwahab: I’m just gonna mention imagine coming to a new place. For me, personally, I have changed my location a couple of times from Saudi arabia to Afghanistan, from Afghanistan to Kyrgyzstan, Kyrgyzstan to the U.S., so I’m just telling you to imagine, like, starting everything from scratch and these two individuals are doing great so far within just, like, a couple of months without having connections or without having, like, enough support and we are trying here our best and we’re doing whatever we can to just, like, survive and enjoy our time which is, like, something we are really proud of in a short amount of time. So yeah hats off for you guys [Laughs].

 

Zainab Hashimi: Yeah, I actually wanted to add that the first step you take It’s the most important step. After that, you, you will know what you want to do. I mean, you have to have the courage to reach out to people–

 

Diana Wardak: Yeah.

 

Zainab Hashimi: –if you want anything. And you have to have the courage to take the first step. And after that, everything will happen.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Zainab Hashimi: So the hardest thing is the first step. That’s it.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: I agree. I agree. Yeah. Applying to jobs first was, like, very hectic and we were going crazy. Me, Zainab, and everyone here, especially the Afghan students because of the language barrier as well. Sometimes people don’t take you seriously–

 

Zainab Hashimi: That’s true.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: -because of, I don’t know, your accent or whatever. But I mean, we’re here today and we’re doing our bachelor’s degree, which is, like, a huge thing. And we have a scholarship.

 

Zainab Hashimi: I have to mention that we are studying our Bachelor in a foreign language. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm. 

 

Zainab Hashimi: That’s a huge, huge accomplishment of us. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah, I agree. 

 

Zainab Hashimi: I have to mention that. Yeah. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Okay, great. So we’re kind of at the end of our podcast. So, I don’t know, students, faculty, or anyone who’s listening to us today. What do you think, or for international students specifically, what support systems or resources you would encourage the faculty to give to the international students in order for them, like, to thrive and succeed in their life while being in college without having, like, strong connections or basically, like, us starting from scratch. What do you think is going to be most helpful for students like us?

 

Zainab Hashimi: I would think the first step would be not to prejudge international students. Especially, for example, when you go to a job interview, or to your professor at all, or even to your classmate, the first thing they would judge you upon is where you have come from. For example, if you come from a country which is very famous for war and stuff– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: –they will not have this prejudge of you, like, being intellectual. So that’s the first step. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: And another thing that I have noticed, I mean, I believe that everyone should be treated equally, which is true at Bard College, everyone is being treated equally. Sometimes in general, the Bard College– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: –should be kind of easygoing on international students in some aspects– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: –because local students, have very different backgrounds than international students, especially the displaced students from Ukraine, Russia, Afghanistan, or Palestine nowadays. 

 

Diana Wardak: Yeah.

 

Zainab Hashimi: They have to be flexible with international students a little more because of their situation they’re going on through.

 

Diana Wardak: Yeah.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: I agree. Do you want to add something else? 

 

Diana Wardak: Well, I would say, Diana speaking again. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: [Laughter].

 

Diana Wardak: The Bard College faculty, they have always been, like, really supportive, but like Zainab mentioned, there are always areas that they could, like, improve, you know, their accessibility to, like, international students. So I would say there should be some seminars to international students for, like, making them know about different things that’s going on here.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mmm.

 

Diana Wardak: That’s how they will, you know, get familiar with, for example, maybe job opportunities or meet new people and then learn about new stuff. So the more there are programs for them, the more they are, like, prepared or priority–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Diana Wardak: –the better they will get. The better they will serve.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Okay. That were my questions for today. So, I would like to request the last message for our audience. If you want to end up with a quote, if you want to end up with an advice, if it would be appreciated. 

 

Zainab Hashimi: Never–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: –be ashamed of where you have come from–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Okay.

 

Zainab Hashimi: –because the person you are today is a consequence of you were in the past, right? 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: From the background you come or whatever you have done in the past. And the other thing I wanted to say was everything happens in your life. You have to always take it as a opportunity, not as a challenge. For example, if Afghanistan collapsed and we get out of Afghanistan, I would not see this as an, I mean, obviously it’s challenging. It’s a struggling, but it’s still, I would see it as an opportunity to kind of being exposed to diverse environment outside of Afghanistan. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: So one day when I go back to Afghanistan to work in Afghanistan and to actually help my people back in Afghanistan, I would have more knowledge to better serve my country. Yeah.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: What about you, Diana?

 

Diana Wardak: I would say, like Zainab mentioned, try to get most out of the opportunities. 

 

Diana Wardak: Because for some it’s opportunity, for some it’s a dream, and for some it might not be even something.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Diana Wardak: But people could make very huge accomplishments out of some opportunities. And be nice and also try to make a difference in a good way.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Great! I would say as an international student, it’s okay to start from a small thing. Right now we’re currently working on campus and we’re very grateful for that. So don’t think whenever you come to U.S. or Bard to expect, like, I don’t know, have a huge job opportunity. You’re going to make thousands of, I don’t know, dollars a year. It’s okay. These, like, milestones are gonna make you even better and better. We’re gonna, as an international student, we’re gonna struggle. That’s very obvious. But at the end of the day, those small accomplishments is gonna make you reach a higher level in the future. So yeah, try your best. Never stop trying. Keep trying. And before giving up, try once again, I would say. So, yeah.

 

Zainab Hashimi: Yeah, actually I wanted to emphasize on the point you made. We have to normalize this in life to celebrate, like, very little occasions, little successes we actually get in life and to not be very perfectionist. That’s my problem. 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: I–

 

Maha Abdulwahab:  Everyone’s problem, I think! [Laughs].

 

Zainab Hashimi: Yeah. Like, I think being perfectionist would kinda, it will not help you at all to get anything in, in life because once something that, that does not go in a way you want it to– 

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: –you just get depressed–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Yeah.

 

Zainab Hashimi: –and you just, you know, leave everything and you give up.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: We had those moments, right?

 

Zainab Hashimi: We had those moments. Actually–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: We got a lot of rejections. [Laughs].

 

Zainab Hashimi: Yeah. That, that’s why I said we have to normalize to sometimes fail–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Mm-Hmm.

 

Zainab Hashimi: –and also normalize to celebrate those little successes. Yeah, in life.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: I agree.

 

Diana Wardak: I really love the point, Maha, that you mentioned about, like–

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Aw.

 

Diana Wardak: –start with smaller things and then even if, like, both of you emphasized on this, but I will emphasize as a last message that yeah, you begin with smaller achievements and then you, you know, you get access to a bigger achievement because once you don’t make the base of a house, then you cannot just sit on the top floor, you know. So always make the base and then think of the upcoming floors.

 

Maha Abdulwahab: Okay, that was it for today. Thank you so much for giving your time to do this with me today. I really appreciate it. And as we wrap up our conversation, we want to extend our huge thank you to our guests. Diana and Zainab for sharing their insightful experiences with us. We hope you, our listeners, enjoyed this, this first episode and gained valuable insight to the life of international student in the U. S. Don’t forget to subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts and follow us on Instagram for more captivating stories and updates. Until next time, keep exploring, keep learning, and keep embracing the journey. You can find out more about experimental humanities by visiting eh.bard.edu. That is eh.bard.edu. Thank you so much for listening and stay tuned for our upcoming episodes. 

 

[Music increases in volume].

 

Maha Abdulwahab: This season of EH Out Loud is produced at Bard Center for Experimental Humanities by me, Maha Abdul Wahab, and Krista Caballero, the co-director of EH. Fact checking and transcription by Anna Hallett Gutierrez and Neil Bhatia. Sound editing and music by Maha Abdul Wahab and Bird Cohen. Special thanks to our guests and the Experimental Humanities Media Corps. Visit us again at eh.bard.edu to learn about Experimental Humanities and other projects at the Center. [Music increases in volume]. Thank you so much.